Supplement science thread

Supplement science thread
0

#1

This is the supplement science thread. Feel free to discuss any and all legal compounds and or ideas for new formulas. While anecdotal experience can and should be discussed, we want to find out the how.

And go.


New supplement thread
#2

I like this idea man. Good stuff!


#3

cns recovery, avoiding excitotoxicity, potentiating stims while avoiding sides and preventing tolerance as well as completely preventing morphine dependance when co-administered from the start:
Agmatine.
MOA: about a few hundred. nmda-receptor antagonism, functions as neurotransmitter being anxiolytic and antidepressant as well as analgesic. improves insulin sensitivity and carbohydrate uptake into muscles via mechanisms different and probably not fully understood as there are so many of them. yet it seems well tolerated and has no particular dangers except that bad agmatine will not do much potentiating psychoactives and if one suddenly gets good agmatine it can increase the effects 2-3 fold. 500mg agmapure has signiicant effects in regards to the things mentioned, 2g of various agmatine powders do not. agmamax is close in effect. popular quality brands like sns unfortunately do not compare (regarding agmatine).

used to see agmapure on many labels, not anymore. wondering why. stuff is actually green, not white. if anyone has an idea of a product containing agmapure or agmapure only which can be obtained in europe please let me know.

condemned dna dispatch used to have agmapure, now it just says agmatine sulfate. suppose they wanted to save the money for improving the rest of the formula? thing is, myodyne ergonox was 500mg agmapure and 200mg powergrape per cap, 90 caps. 3 caps beat any non-stim pump, performance, mood, endurance etc. by a mile.

often trademarked or patented ingredients are not needed. sometimes they make a huge difference. people think purenergy is just a type of caffeine. it is actually pteropure-caffeine co-crystal and not only incredibly expensive but also the best for cognitive health one can find and it reduces hypertension better than any medication. so it is not a mix of caffeine and some slightly better resveratrol. pterostilbene is also the ultimate substance to prevent illness. it is a selective zytostatic and zytotoxic while protecting healthy cells from damage. one should alway get pteropure to be sure. everyone who has taken it has had dramatic improvements in health, measureable and visible within a few weeks. i am certain that its co-crystals or analogues will be the ultimate treatment of cancer in the future. researchers called it a perfect cancer drug almost a decade ago, yet people get so angry at this subject. my grandparents all died of it, i will never get it or any other deadly illness and aging has basically stopped and even reversed (MPB, nearly no hair left, grew back almost completely. not a line or wrinkle or blemish at age 33).

it is not another superfood, good antioxidant or supplement. its most likely the most incredible compound discovered to date. if interested read about it and all the incredible effects like preventing damage from strokes etc.


#4

Question for you good sir! Is there by chance an article stating some of these enhancing effects on agmapure. This really intrigued me quite a bit


#5

So I am a fan of agmatine particular in relation to improved glucose uptake. I have used a lot of it, both agmapure and agmatine sulfate mainly in pill form versus a bulk powder. I found agmatine works with na-r-ala rather well and the combo has been useful for me especially will meals a couple hours prior to exercise.


#6

I’ll have to experiment with that a little. I’ve never thought about it as a glucose uptake tool until recently


#7

google something like agmatine morphine dependance tolerance mice


#8

In on this thread :grin:


#9

i was the first to formulate a product with agmatine and na-r-ala. soon performax and others copied it. their mistake was not including bergenin. hence why recompagen is too strong for most and fat gain impossible as you are still near death after your 3rd pizza, tub of icecream and 3lbs cheesecake.
actually i didn’t expect it to be that strong but 4 caps burn24 and 700mg banaba and 300mg gymnema added do not come close.
3 ways of glucose uptake and insulin resistent fat cells. it must be the bergenin dosage. luckily i didn’t dose the other ingredients the way one would use them solo.


#10

Recompagen doesn’t look too strong to me. It’s a simple but decent formula but I don’t see anything over the top. I have used all of those in higher amounts except bergenin which I have never been completely sold on.


#11

the bergenin dose is the reason for keeping the others moderate.
na-r-ala at 300mg
500mg berberin
1g bitter melon
450mg gymnema
700mg banaba
cinnamon, 4-hil etc.

all combined do not come close. the point is making a formula that is selective to muscle cells and targets several mechanism.

i could make a formula a lot stronger (most people had to take recompagen with food as taking it prior even 150g carbs werent enough to make them feel normal again…lol)

now imagine this.
300mg na-r-ala
500mg berberin
300mg bergenin
1g agmapure
700mg banaba (low corosolic or 12:1)
100mg pterostilbene
800mg pomegranate (punicalagins)
1.5g arginocarn
2.5mg biotin
450mg activamp gynostemma
55mg trans-tiliroside

i assume you think otherwise but the sheer amount of nutrients that can be consumed will increase performance that day, especially with several hundred g carbs in the body. i could not take this or i would need to eat a large meal every 2 hours.


#12

just 1g agmapure and 800mg pomella produces pumps, endurance and vascularity beyond anything on the market right now. generic agmatine and grape seed for example do not compare. also no other pomegranate extracts is comparable to pomella.


#13

So @TheSupremeSoul, if I buy that AMPK Activator stuff, is there an ideal time I should take it?

With a pre-workout meal sounds right to me, but you’re the one with experience with it.


#14

depends which one you get. there is the old ampk activator which has 3 capsules, each 150mg activamp, 18.5mg tiliroside. then there is the new ampk metabolic activator which is a tablet containing 450mg activamp/500mg hesperidin.
id prefer the first and take 2 caps with the biggest and 1 cap with the second biggest meal, eventhough i would probably use 2 caps twice daily.
the new one i suppose is best taken in the morning. i suppose it has somewhat of a time release effect. i do not like the reformulation tbh, tiliroside seems much more interesting to me then hesperidin.
anyhow, gynostemma is basically like metformin and berberine but a lot stronger and the product is cheap compared to most nutrient partitioners so i suppose it would be the best value for money whichever version you get.


#15

I have never used pomella. I want to now just to see if it’s as good as said. Nitrates at least proper doses have always been superior for me in relation to noticeable vascular and endurance.


#16

pomella=punicalagins turn into urolithins in the gut and deliver ellagic acid into the bloodstream.
no idea what the best price is in the Us but myodyne has 60 caps of 500mg each. 2 of those would be pretty good. or if you get something like lef pomegranate complete with 400mg pomella and a bit of a punicic acid extract then maybe even try 3 of those. i would take it all at once 1-2 hours before workout, if agmatine is used even better, and have some carbs protein before workout (i just have chocolate milk or something like that just before, the last meal usually being around 3 hours before workout having at least 120-150g carbs and over 1000 calories).


#17

Re1gn has 1g of agmapure per serving, I’m liking that one lately
I’ve had purenergy before and maybe that’s why I liked those pre’s (core fury, no xplode)
I’m trying to track down these ingredients you’re referring to, while I’m an experienced user I’m not an experienced manufacturer.
Anyone want to put heads together on this?

Correction: Re1gn has 1g of agmass per serving, I just looked at the tub


#18

purenergy you are fucked. chromadex won’t sell anything for less than 10k US or so and takes a month to respond to an email. however i do know what ingredients should cost realistically.
if someone would contact the producer of agmapure or had 10k bottles of a formula manufactured then i could tell you what it really costs.
so if someone has some money to invest, 10k units of a product will allow the pricing where raws cost about 10% of retail. so if an olympus product is 50 dollars then they paid 5 dollars for it approx. (usually includes the bottle and everything as someone gets the ingredients for you, blends them, caps them or puts powder in bottles and containers and you have your innovation and science).

pomella is actually very costly, so is purenergy. olympus could never use pomella, instead they use non-declared pomegranate or urolithin-b which must be synthetic and cheap.

citrulline, tmg, creatine, ksm-66, elevatp, vaso-6 are all cheap. the patented ones are used to impress, arginocarn, purenergy are far more expensive, add some kaneka ubiquinol and primavie shilajit (not actually that expensive) which are far beyond elevatp. mitochondrial energy production would be increased like crazy. a month supply at 3g arginocarn, 400mg purenergy, 200mg ubiquinol/200mg shilajit, active b-vitamins could be made for maybe 20 dollars per bottle. now a company does not have to sell it for 200. i can guarantee however that no product on the market costs as much to make as this would. people would tend not to recognize what they are getting.
not only is there 228mg pterostilbene in a co-crystal with caffeine, also purenergy is far more expensive mg for mg than pteropure. companies will use 100mg purenergy or 200at most but then the rest is cheap as hell. even normal alcar is usually no more than a gram. and it costs a fraction of alcar-arginate. 100g a dollar maybe, if that.

companies even save a dollar by not using quaity vitamins and minerals as 100k units sold=100k more money…


#19

if you had the example product made but only 1000 bottles it would cost you at least double.
basically one needs to be able to buy 10k bottles min.
if i had the capital i would start with 2 products and 10k units each. production 20-30 dollars, so 500k for the products. if one bought the ingredients solo such a product would cost 200-400 dollars. this industry is such a marketing greed ripoff.

i would be happy to formulate stuff anytime if someone started a company where you pay 60-100 dollars for a product which will not be limited by budget. most supps in the 30-50 range are 1-3 dollars to make.
i wish i could make something of value for the consumer. no company will pay more than 5 dollars for raws though. that would be luxury.


#20

you guys have much more choice and better prices in the US though. if you want me to make up a combination of ingredients for you let me know. i would need to know some background info though. some people have cortisol issues, some estrogen, some tendon problems etc. so what will benefit the most depends on the circumstances basically. preworkouts like reign are simply not good for long term performance. one should not feel burnt out after training or the next day. those pres are worse than muscle failure (which is really using less weight as it is not moving and already has slowed down a lot. it annoys me when people want to spot me so i can do one more rep with half the weight as its done and they are doing a lot of the work. subjective intensity does not equal effective training. one rep done right with adequate load and one can feel the muscle damage and doms becomes immediate onset muscle destruction. yet the body can be fresh and recovered all the time. failure, forced reps and megastims is like slamming ones head against the wall in order to improve cognitive function…haha