Supplement science thread

Supplements
21

Ok, brief thing on what regulates autophagy, the goal of fasting.
Autophagy is the process of breaking down cells that are damaged or unneeded during periods of not getting any additional energy. This has quite a few health benefits and seems to be a really good way of preventing neuro degenerative diseases and improving insulin sensitivity.

3 things regulate this insulin glucagon and MTOR
Mtor is activated by amino acids in a 2 stage process priming and activation, which is another reason to not use bcaas on their own.
(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27587390)
MTOR inhibition is also something that is done to prevent organ rejection(raptamicin being used as an anti-organ rejection drugs after being found in fungi)
MTOR not being active tells your body there is no protein coming in.

Next insulin is released from food, particularly protein and carbs, and having it tells your body you just got new food. You all know about insulin

Finally Glucagon is your body’s hormone for telling the liver to break down glycogen glucose.
This also needs to be low and is lowered when the liver has no glycogen to break down. Exercise and time are the best way to do this.

With this in mind to induce autophagy you need to not have liver glycogen, not have elevated insulin, and not have MTOR activated. So basically being in ketosis without protein.

The other thing to note is that certain organs are resistant to autophagy, like the brain. Meaning longer fast are needed for the benefits.

I have wondered what supplements could help with this. Drug companies are trying to come up with drugs to induce autophagy, until then we are stuck with extended fasting.

Now theoretic supplements I have found are
ACL carnitine loading before hand, which should help with energy and fat metabolism
Apple cider viniger might be helpful as acetic acid inhibits insulin release I think, but it taste awful.
Agmatine might be as it inhibits Mtor in the liver it seems, but might activate it else where. If insulin sensitivity is the goal it might be worth including.

Also HMB should be avoided as it activates MTOR, which will prevent autophagy. Despite what any stupid companies will try to tell you.

This is all at the early theory crafting stages keep in mind

Finally getting rid of the liver glycogen is going to be a really big priority, the faster you get into ketosis the less amino acids your body will have to break down.

22

i will go as far as stating that taking gynostemma, tiliroside, pterostilbene and pomegranate when in ones teens and not yet ill, one will never develop any disease except maybe catch diarrhea in india.
pterostilbene is also a selective zytostatic and zytotoxic and the strongest neuroprotectant cellular health promoting substance discovered so far. (analogues may be even hundreds of times more potent). this means it works like aggressive chemo on malunctioning cells while protecting other cells from any damage. i would never suggest to anyone to self-medicate unless completely certain what one is doing. it sounds crazy but i smoke 30 cigs a day and i will never have lung problems, cancer is impossible. i can feel these things. supposedly science discovered what they consider almost an organ, i always knew what was going on with my body and brain and diagnosed treated and cured my incurable chronic illness. someone too fatigued to wash a plate or make toast would not be expected to benefit from opioids and benzos would they? well turns out i can take 4 grams i.v. morphine equivalent at once and not get tired at all. doctors would suggest antidepressant or such, yet i have never had even anything one could consider a depressed phase or any kind of anxiety. also when i say something is too exhausting it means it is severe. i walk with my foot broken or a gunshot wound in my leg. and since i look very healthy i concluded it must be neurochemical and basically i used to take an acnemed which fucked with trnscription and my brain does not produce endorphins but lots of cortisol and the proof is that i can tolerate 100x80mg oxycontin tabs a day easily and benzos give me mental clarity.
by now i barely take anything as i figured more elegant ways but i never got high, tired or anything. i simply felt nearly normal.

point: nobody knows better what is going on with you than you. you may just not know how to access this knowledge. forget whats supposed to be good, your body tells you what it needs all the time.

23

i was bald on top at 29 and at 33 have nearly completely full hair again. reversed aging? :wink:

24

which would you choose? noxpump or mesomorph both dmaa free.

noxpump has better dosages of its ingredients, mesomorph is interesting if one is using another supplement with agmatine, cop, nitrates, and so on.

since i will be getting dna dispatch, pomella pomegranate and pteropure pterostilbene i am leaning towards meso. additionally i do not like choline sources too much.

for a single product noxpump seems to be the better choice for most.

25

Sounds like this thread is just a continuation of the New Supplement thread with “it worked for me!” anecdotal evidence for [almost] everyone’s post. I thought the plan was to back all statements with links to published human studies. :stuck_out_tongue:

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26

We are looking for the science and how it is possible. Anecdotal is fine, but we are looking for how, moa and any clinical research as well.

27

you actually want to read studies 5 times as long as my posts? real studies? i can post some but seriously googling agmatine nmda antagonism stimulant toerlance morphine dependance pain relief etc. and you will find hundreds of studies.
the thing is that studies have to be understood in context and nutritional science is still understood very little. hence why nobody knows hyertension and type-2 diabetes are much better treated with natural substances.

28

you realize that the moas are very theoretical and barely understood? like mtor/ampk being opposites and that is it. it is a bit more complicated than that. same with such extreme ideas that nsaids will prevent muscle gain. or bcaas will make a difference when taken during workout. any protein, aminos etc. can raise MPS but the body instantly compensates by having it drop until homeostasis has been achieved.

29

If that is your opinion, that’s fine but not everyone is going to share it. To dismiss moas because they are hard to understand is counterproductive to your own comment on the importance of nutritional science.

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30

“just google It”

The earth is flat; just google it. The Illuminati control the world; just google it. :laughing:

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31

i am not dismissing moas. have you looked at medications? the effect is almost always one of many side effects and the moa can rarely ever be fully explained.
if you are interested in why agmatine has effects on psycoactives then it is related to nmda antagonism and its own role as a neurotransmitter and i can show you studies. if you want to know all the effects agmatine has i can spend writing a 100 page book on it.

i will start posting something regarding opioid dependance prevention and tolerance reversal and some other neurochemical effects and links to studies. give me a few minutes.

32
33

BOOOOM

https://www.nature.com/articles/tp2016116

34

Lol @ this, you got the cure for balding

2 Likes
35

hair loss and acne have a genetic component but the main cause is inflammation and accelerated cell growth via igf-1. this is why androgens worsen it and things like curcumin and pterostilbene and laxogenin work against hair loss. acne is often the result of using skincare products that are oil free and contain irritants, thereby causing inflammation and premature cell death leading to hyperkeratinization.
so ampk activation and antiinflammatories will prevent hair loss and acne.

36

Out of curiosity how much experience do you have with amphetamines?

37

speed i don’t like at all. i have done most drugs but thats a long time ago. now 20mg dextroamphetamine or 10mg dextromethamphetamine are dosages which do not make one high but besides being adhd meds work great for chronic fatigue and such due to low dopamine and noradrenaline but only when there is no underlying medical condition, the doses are taken in a therapeutic range and with several neuroprotective compounds i would definitely say that pharmaceutical amphetamine in such a dose is far less harmful if at all and cleaner, more positive etc. than hardcore preworkout stims. however those amounts do not give the raging stimulation of dmaa, dmba etc.+ caffeine+…+…+…then again it may depend on ones neurochemistry. low dose d-amp and d-methamp are very central in their effects so no jitters, racing heart and so on.

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38

You send me your unpatented oral formula for hair regrowth that can proven with a conducted study and I’ll personally fund any supplement you want to make.

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39

As soon as he does, I’m buying stock in your new company

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40

it is pretty simple. bcm-95, pterostilbene and laxogenin. should be pteropure and laxosterone. the latter is far superior to random laxogenin. i had a shoulder injury for months that went away in 3 days.
some ingredients simply need to be the expensive patented ones, others are more gimmicks.

what is so hard to believe? there is many compounds superior to metformin. pteropure works better for hypertension than heavy pharmaceuticals. acacetin is a stronger AI than arimidex. because plants contain some mcg of a substance does not mean it is not pharmacologically active at proper doses.

atm i could use someone to sponsor me some products. i had many opportunities to make lots of money but consider them criminal (like investing in a weapons company). also i could not ask money from someone who needs help, however it would have be nice to live off helping people with their decade long health issues. instead of paying fortunes to specialists and pharm companies that make it worse it may be worth trying another way and if it helps then it would be nice to be able to live a simple life by helping people. i would never want or accept a fortune and would give the excess away but its weird knowing that something really valuable leads to more antagonism than exploitation and slavery by CEOs of large banks and other companies, who often are psychopaths and people view them as succesful. lack of greed is not weakness. i have helped a good number of people that had been told there is nothing that can be done and i realize people take money for writing a meal plan when i spend days writing to people who have been misdiagnosed and are total wrecks on 10 medications who so far all got better or completely well simply bc someone took the time. there is many things dr. do not know. like giving an ssri to someone with major depression. first they make one passive and tired. mainly however 70% of people needing them lack methylolate which renders reuptake inhibitors ineffective. so basically they are being medicated without hope. cfs and burnout are often considered the same and treated that way yet are exact opposites. except antibiotics, opioids and a few things modern medicine is poison and doctors think they know more about the neurochemistry of a patient than the patient. many times it may be true but when people tell me their theories when i know that all is fine except neurochemical deficiencies caused by permanent damage from a medication. so those need to be replaced, no acupuncture, meditation, nutrition, this, that as health is otherwise perfect.
no depression or anxiety ever occured. if i had behaved like others i would be handicapped and bedridden. instead i found a dr. and told him why i need what and within 45. min i went from severe cfs to well. i think everyone else is talking about how they managed to wash their hair this week and walked 500 meters.