Was just sent this – have not yet had a chance to read.
Wow. This is really bad.
Products claiming to have DMHA are containing 1,3 and 1,4-DMAA instead.
We’ve been hearing this for a while. Only one good DMHA supplier really out there.
The manufacturers in question are in trouble.
This should be interesting. I’ve had weird results with “DMHA”. DMAA from Meso and SP250 are much more predictable for me.
Wuuuuuuut… Only read the cliffs so far, but that’s… Interesting.
Its all a mess … whos the only good supplier?
Click on Table 1, that’s what you need to know. The rest just seems to be historical stuff about each stim which has been covered in depth already.
From what we’ve seen, these guys we posted about a while back:
We were asked to pull down some of the related comments on our DMHA page though (you can still find them if you’re good), likely because they knew something like this was coming?
Ohhhhhhhhh lord…here we go. I always had the impression that the tests they ran to determine if an ingredient used in a supplement was actually there, were pretty strict. Think they tested the right samples and turned around and purposefully stuck another stimulant in their product?
I don’t know who “them” is, but I think you give them too much credit.
Small brand wants XYZ product, finds contract manufacturer who is “cGMP compliant”. Said shitty contract manufacturer finds even shittier Chinese supplier, orders DMHA, gets watered down DMAA, nobody anywhere down the line tests (except Pieter Cohen, apparently!) and nobody knows except the 1% of experienced users like @M3NTAL who never got consistent results.
It’s customs fraud but how do you track these Chinese companies? They dozens of business names and just as many email addresses. Go after the brand? Sure but there’s 10,000 YouTube kidz who want to make a new pre workout and blast it on Amazon for a year.
The only solution is to obliterate those breaking 21 CFR Part 111, and obliterate them hard. Mistakes of course happen and that’s what recalls are for, but his is systemic for some of them.
It’s a sad day when I need to email Alex and Steve at MAN Sports and thank them for not breaking the law.
I apologize as I may have not been clear with what I meant. I was saying the manufacturers, not the brands themselves. As for the chinese manufacturers, im aware of how elusive they can be. I was under the impression that the manufacturers themselves retested single ingredients to double check what they actually paid. But I really enjoy your explanation, as it helps understand the situation a little more
Oh sorry I’m just fiery right now. I guess when you’re making supplements in a bathtub, you don’t have the concern to test EVERY incoming batch and outgoing product per the law
No apology necessary man, as I can understand the frustration entirely. It’s a damn shame when people are cheated out of the trust they put in certain brands
So if I’m reading Cohen’s DMHA study correctly, it looks like none of the tested products contained 2-aminoisoheptane (aka DMHA). However, Game Day does appear to meet its label claims as it does contain 2-amino-6-methylheptane (aka octodrine, aka a 1,3-dimethylamylamine analog). Cohen’s study does express concern about the magnitude of the octodrine dose in Game Day though (not familiar with any of its phamacology or any tox studies so I can’t really evaluate that claim).
Definitely concerning information.
Aka credit to the Hodgetwins. LOL
Hmm guess I’m not really surprised here with the brands involved. MAN Sports actually has what they claim on the label. I would expect nothing less from them. Quality brand.
Gold Star and Chaos and Pain are another matter. I remember C&P got busted by Priceplow a while ago for having AMP Citrate in their pre without disclosing it.
Nah, we just shared their recall, wouldn’t say that was a ‘bust’
Ah I just remember hearing it from you. Nice work
I remember seeing this as well. Honestly it didn’t surprise me much with C&P. They struck me as the types who love that little bit of something “extra” in their products. I noticed it was a very different feeling than DMHA the first time taking it
Jamie Lewis is definitely a “fuck the police” type guy.
I agree though, even just the standard Ferox hit me hard and fast the first time I tried it, it was like a cold, focused fury. Haven’t had it since though, can’t speak for it now.
Precisely! They remind me a little of the OG Blackstone labs, when they were just tickling the feet of the FDA constantly with the harder core vibe. Also, have you noticed they do a lot of social media out of colombia? Not saying anything, but there’s a reason some companies go outside of the U.S. to do business…
I wonder what is in sidewalk kraka. It feels like dmaa.