What about that “not for pussys” company? They seem to be using some ingredients that would fit this description
For a moment I thought you were referring to the nazi’s and Panzerschokolade.
Wrong war, though that does kind of work for the eastern front.
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well, some things i would want to be absolutely certain i am not getting something fake. pterostilbene i would not risk using anything but pteropure as it has health benefits which could be largely or completely lost. laxogenin is another where quality varies greatly. the one in lecheek secretabridge was far superior in terms of healing of injuries than the much higher dosed olympus stuff in massacr3 (interesting how olympus uses lots of patented stuff but when it makes a significant price difference they chose the cheaper and i have tried a few products that looked good on paper but did not do much). agmatine as well as pterostilbene i do not view as a supplement. i would not want to buy fake antibiotics or such either. my experience is that even reputable brands agmatine has never done much while agmapure and agmamax had significant potentiating effects on psychoactive substances and myodyne ergonox, which was agmapure and powergrape (at 3 caps 1.5g/600mg) provided more pump and vascularity than anything and almost too much when generic agmatine and grape seed often are barely noticeable. so especially since agmatines effects work strongly via neurochemical mechanisms even a small impurity or lower quality could ruin the effects as it is such a complex substance and the significant difference in consistency when comparing agmamax with other powdered agmatine (both white but agmamax looks to be of much cleaner quality, finer consistency etc.). agmapure according to some people was the only agmatine that worked as an antidepressant and anxiolytic for them outperforming ssri and benzos. i am not sure why it is green but it would surprise me if there were not some significant differences if it was tested against other non patented agmatine products. i do not want to name brands but one that is known for making good quality products has an agmatine powder that simply looks like it was made in a basement rather than a lab already and didn’t really do much. often patented ingredients are just a waste of money but depending on how important the effects are (if one just wants a pump it is different than someone who has gotten relief from neuropathic pain but only from one or two kinds of agmatine and not having access would be a big deal for someone like that).
Edit: should we move this conversation elsewhere?
There have been multiple human studies showing benefits (on depression, pain, etc) with agmatine that I have no reason to believe is Agmapure. Same for a TON of rodent studies. Granted, they know it’s pure, but my point is that Agmapure is NOT better than real/good agmatine, it IS good agmatine. If other agmatine isn’t as good, it’s brcuse it’s not pure agmatine.
Where have you tried other bulk agmatine from? Nothing I’ve had about bulk sources suggests that it was made in a basement, and I have extensive experience sourcing ingredients for personal use and for product formulation.
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I’d like to direct @TheSupremeSoul to answer this, so I can get closure to his obsession with AgmaPure
I get why he likes/uses it. It’s an assurance of quality. If he’s been “burned” by other sources, he’ll likely opt for one he KNOWS won’t let him down, and not even think about using something else. Of course, that doesn’t mean that there aren’t other good options out there, so he shouldn’t dismiss them all outright as inferior, even if he doesn’t want to use them himself.
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those studies were likely made with pharmaceutical grade agmatine which is not what supplement companies use, nearly all ingredients are from china and i know what most supps cost in terms of raws max and despite companies denying this, it is quite messed up.
also the lying…urolithin b extracted from pomegranate…rather it is synthetic and using an effective dosage of pomella which results in urolithins being produced in the gut would simply be too expensive. so what is called innovation usually is pseudoscience/profit maximizing. or some claiming their pterostilbene being extracted from blueberries at 100mg/day for 30 days.that would require around 30.000kg of blueberries per bottle.
we should definitely make a new thread. i just worry about all the people affiliated with companies claiming their 50 dollar product cost more than 5 dollars to make…
okay, so far sns powdered agmatine had no significant effects. also agmatine in formulas never did anything noticeable except agmapure in myodyne ergonox or agmamax powder. since i can tell the degree of nmdar antagonism and prevention of glutamatergic excitotoxicity or lack thereof i can safely say only those two had significant neurochemical effects.
My point is that it is entirely possible to get quality agmatine that is not Agmapure. It may take more work, but it’s entirely possible. Again, what bulk sources have you tried that you deemed inferior to Agmapure?
Have you considered that other ingredients in products containing agmatine may be interfering with the agmatine in some way? Perhaps other amino acids? Stimulants, etc? That wouldn’t be unheard of for non-pump related uses.
i can’t answer that without coming across as having delusions of grandeur but i know things that so far no pharmacist or psychiatrist new about neurochemistry, immunology and such things.
how do you think i went from 3000calories maintenance to 5000 calories being a deficit, being single digit bf and gaining muscle and strength ectremely fast? manipulation of metabolism on a cellular level with lasting effects, basically changing my physiology. i can simply feel immediately wether an ingredient is a good addition, synergistic, useless or even harmful. people also told me i cannot know wether my bloodwork is fine without having it tested which kind of surprised me as i fail how one cannot notice things being off. someone also said it is impossible that i lose several pounds after a day of 4000 calories as the deficit is too large so there will be intracellular water loss. also gaining weight while losing fat supposedly is impossible too but i gained 5-6kg while losing a few kg of bodyfat in a period of several months (3 to 5, don’t remember it all).
also bf was sub 10% to begin with so it was actual muscle gain. i suppose when one more or less maintains most of the time and then has periods of massive volume, frequency, weight, food, supplements etc. and all is done as fast as possible it is simply different than following strict routines. same thing after a break. instead of easing into it just training as much as possible increasing reps only once or twice, then increasing the weight significantly, thereby causing extreme microtraumata allowed me to regain most of my strenght and size in 5 weeks, gaining probably 40-45 pounds and 3inches or more on arms. i simply know whats best for my body and most people pay too much attention to programs, advice by “gurus”, science saying this or that (science on natural substances with significant effects is still in its infancy, if that is the correct saying.). according to most i cannot make progress because i take antioxidants all the time, do not use any pre, intra and postworkout nutrition and eat a varied diet without paying attention to protein intake. if one is not hungry after training then obviously it is not time yet to consume any nutrients. actually right after heavy weights the muscle cells may be somewhat resistent to nutrient uptake and need half an hour or an hour and eating a meal works perfectly fine. i feel those who time and weigh their protein, eaa, carb, leucine-derivative shakes are the ones not making that much progress. i used to be similar. one is not seeing the desired results and wants to do it all perfectly when it would be better to use 30% more weight, fuck time under tension and have a large pizza after.
if my tone comes across slightly annoyed it is because people are bothering me here about all kinds of irrelevant nonsense. (not the forum, my place)
I moved most of the unrelated “Supplement News” thread posts to this new thread.
Let’s keep the “New Supplements” thread reserved for new supplement news and feedback for people who get new supplements.
As far as discussing ingredients, opinions, feedback, and questions - let’s move it here to the Roundtable!
xoxo,
Matt
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Thanks, this makes a lot more sense.
So there’s no point in me even continuing this conversation. I suppose I can’t tell you that you can’t instantly determine if an ingredient works well for YOU, but surely you know that your n=1 anecdotal experience can’t be the definitive verdict on a supplement for everyone, right?
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You admitted to using anabolics during this time and/or part of the time. Granted, you admitted to not seeing the same results until the supplements you’re noting however almost all nutrient parting or insulin mimetics are greatly enhanced when under anabolics. MPS is drastically increased as is your body’s response to igf-1/2 which some of these may enhance a natural response.
Look at all factors
in fact a test/deca/dbol cycle with a strong AI will make me fat and slow down metabolism. (someone i know and who is advanced in aas usage confirmed that deca actually reduced bmr and causes fat gains).
so, and this is 2 years or so before, i used test/deca/dbol and ate around 3000 calories. my bodyfat went to 20% or so and while i gained size and strength (mostly on pushing exercises) that was temporary and after toying with various aas i realized that i look and perform the best on low dose masteron or even just ostarine. if you have used masteron only and know that good quality is rare too you will understand that 350-500mg/week will not do what people think steroids do. and when one considers that this was basically a constant which was not used for anabolism but recovery (i have cfs so what it did was give me back some of my work capacity i used to have naturally and feel healthier). however that became a sort of background tool and while it made me feel and look better than that deca,dbol experiment i still would take my pre-cfs state over it. i was not eating more at that point or having any massive gains. the fact i managed to keep up training surprises me to date (if you have seen proper chronic fatigue syndrome you know it is a severe illness).
not surprisingly things that are bad for anyones health would not be the best thing for me.
anyhow, it was trying every supplement one can get and after years having found maybe 1 out of 10 substances at the most to do anything and only things i could actually feel without a doubt were kept. some things for example are great but do not agree with me, curcumin is something that seems to not be ideal for my immune system (i have the cfs under control but its a delicate balancing act). so over time my body started to require more energy and carbs and it was one day i realized how much my body had changed in utilizing nutrients as there was also always subcutaneous water in the 3000 calorie 10%bf time (which had masteron in it and nothing estrogenic). that was just my bodytype, small frame, little muscle, belly fat and watery. so the long term metabolic changes occured due to perfecting my intake of supplements over years and using them continuously. if for some reason something was not available for a few weeks things did not change much so rather than acute effects my bodies ability to process nutrients had been changed significantly.
the one thing i will say is that aas will do one thing that naturals cannot have. the clavicular fibres, shoulders and neck grow rounder due to increased androgen receptors in those areas. besides that if one gave somebody 350mg test with an ai or 350mg mast without them knowing or having used aas before they would never notice it. aas users falsely downplay aas effects but non-users massively overestimate them. in low doses one can basically gain past the point were it becomes difficult naturally but very slowly. it will be the same as natural training, only the natural will gain 1-2lbs. at most per year after 5 years of training and the aas user can gain that when the natural is basically stuck.
also aas can fuck up things with all the sides so the idea of getting huge on cycles of hobby bb is wishful thinking, it is either a mild contribution or you take anything available for 10k usd/month to become a 350lbs monster but most would not tolerate enough test or tren to have real lasting gains. the misconception is aas being massively proteinanabolic in doses people think. pros use a gram of test a day at least, hgh, slin, site injections, prostaglandins, t3 and whatever is available, often in blends, giving them another 3g tren, 2g deca, 2 g eq, 200mg anadrol, 200mg dbol and so on. see what happens when they go off. those 100lbs gone are not structural protein. they are full of water, oil and edema (done right it can result in winning the mr.O. they can barely walk, wipe their ass or do a set without needing hallf an hour rest and a fan though. the training videos are shot over several days, with all the orals 3 sets of squats and they would e puking and having a heart attack. it is sadly true, i used to know some people and the guys use that much and some have problems going to the bathroom alone. and the heartburn from 3g tren and anadrol…)
posts like this are often called bs but its is really like that.
of course, what works for me may not be necessary or useful at all for someone else. guys with cortisol and estrogen issues would need a completely different approach. that is why i suggest things to people after several hours of private messaging. i don’t answer things like: what is the best test-booster or fatburner?
btw, something being right for me means that i can feel it being good for me. it doesn’t mean that i had instant results others could verify. the way pomegranate extract improved blood flow for example and gave vascularity was very different from other things. not comparable to any pump ingredients or nutrient partitioners. it simply felt healthy and improved performance. while it may be close to other compounds it was a unique difference which makes me want to use it as it provides something different rather than being one of 10 ingredients doing the same thing. punicalagins lead to urolithin production in the gut and deliver ellagic acid to the bloodstream. i did not know this back then but i knew punicalagins from pomegranate were something with significant effects. turns out intuition wasn’t that far off.
well, lets say that pharmaceutical grade agmatine has been proven to reduce tolerance, increase analgesia and prevent dependance if coadministered from the beginning. it has helped cut dosages in half within weeks and it prevents stim-sides/opioid withdrawal effects (the latter to some degree) as those are related to glutamate and agmatine is an effective nmda-receptor antagonist. ketamine and ibogaine are more potent but obviously…
magnesium helps too but agmatine is far ahead.
as it is possibly an endogenous neurotransmitter maybe agmapure is closer to ones own agmatine than other types? i am not sure. it is green and i don’t know why but it could be a case of “natural” vs. synthetic agmatine, eventhough they are probably equal if the quality is pure. most bb companies get raws from china though and that is not pharm grade medication. (agmatine really cannot be considered a supplement with its profound effects)
nutrient partitioners really starting to fail the concept. 30 servings, occasional use…
first glycobol actually peaked my interest in supplements. now they made this:
AI Sports Glycobol XT 90 Capsules
Serving Size: 3 capsules
Servings Per Container: 30
Chromium (as Polynicotinate) 300mcg
Berberine HCL Root Extract from Indian Barberry (Barberis Artistata (root) 500mg
Arginine Sulfate 500mg
Gymnema Sylvestre Leaf Extract 300mg
Banaba Leaf Extract 12:1 250mg
Cinnamon Bark Extract 20:1 250mg
Black Pepper Fruit Extract (Bioperine) 5mg
50 caps of banaba 350mg/gymnema 150mg can be had for 15 euros now (dedicated ig-one). berberine is cheap. cinnamon, really? and is arginine sulfate not a typo?
i already thought this was crap:
cinnamon is just cheap, 4-hil would have to be dosed around 250-500mg active. pterostilbene from blueberry is a scam. nothing here is selective or impresses me but still looks better than most stuff these days.
seems life extension ampk activator is the most effective product one can get by far. both compounds are significantly stronger than berberine and metformin and have many health benefits. adding some agmatine or banaba or both or pterostilbene and using it in morning and using agmatine, berberine, banaba at night and i see nothing that would beat it really. we are talking miles ahead of metformin here. type-2 diabetes suddenly looks kind of unnecessary to keep. i admire doctors and the pharmaceutical industry.
