2g COP NEW CRAZY STIM CNS LABGRADE PRE-WORKOUT

Supplements
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Hi Priceplow nation!

My name is Robert Darcy and I am the proud founder of Complete Nutritional Sciences.

I have created a new pre-workout formula that is like no other on the market. The sample tubs will be coming in next week and I would love all your valuable knowledge and opinions. Here is the link to the formula, please let me know what flavor you all would like to see it in also! As well as what you would of liked to see in the formula.

Retail will be 54.99 but for the first 2500 customers it will be 49.99 and $10 off their next purchase. 20 servings of pure fuel, with free shipping, all scientifically formulated to help you reach your full potential.

The label is needing touch ups as far as the supplement section goes as I am waiting for the flavoring and gram per scoop.

Thank you all! Looking forward to what everyone thinks.

-Robert

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Obviously i cut the glycerpump and the vaso6, the label needs to be updated by as of now that is the artwork:)

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Wow, awesome posting this here…and welcome to the PricePlow forums!

As someone who already takes beta alanine daily (along with creatine and betaine) whether or not I work out, I don’t want it in my pre. However, I understand that supp makers need to cater to folks who think the “tingles” mean “it’s working”. Oh, just saw betaine is in there, too. I’d also want that removed for the same reason.

Thanks for not going overboard with the caffeine. But ya got dynamine in there for energy too. I haven’t played with that yet :slight_smile:

I loves me some phenethyl dimethylamine (eria jarensis) :grin:

To upload pictures, you can literally drag them into the message window on this forum. It’s pretty sweet.

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Thank you for your input, I appreciate it so much!

yes, plus once you saturate your body with beta alanine it literally has the increased carnosine for months.

And yes, more isn’t always better. A study showed that an average of 250mg of caffeine prior to workout decreased cerebral blood flow by up to 27%. Not cool.

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Welcome Robert! I was the one who replied to you on PricePlow’s YouTube, so glad to see you took my invite.

So here’s a couple thoughts on the formula:

Average caffeine consumption is up with pre’s. A few (older) folks here may disagree with me but I would say bump it up slightly, especially with that much theanine. Mike likes a 2:1 caffeine:theanine ratio that I agree with.

On the topic of stims, is that 40% Dynamine yielding 100mg? Or 100mg 40% yielding 40mg? If it’s the latter, I would recommend bumping to the former.

Personally, tyrosine does nothing for me. I’d rather see Alpha-GPC or CDP Choline.

Love Higenamine, underrated ingredient, good call there.

I hope the citrulline malate is 2:1! Clarify that on the label.

I see you’re up to date with new ingredients, Vaso-6 and GlycerPump. Decent offense overall for pumps, but 300mg of Vaso is the sweet spot.

Lastly, defense on nitric oxide? Norvaline is awesome, or agmatine to inhibit arginase.

Flavors? I adore lemonade based flavors. Regular lemonade and strawberry lemonade are favorites.

Two lime based flavors are interesting, the sourness of citrulline should help with that. I think that’s a great starting selection, especially with summer!

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Personally I’d rather see the GlycerPump and Vaso-6 up a little since the stimulant blend is a little lower than most. Why cut back on the newest and greatest pump ingredients when one side of the fence is already lower! (Which is a nice change of pace) Might as well take advantage of it to up the pumps!

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I’ve got a couple more clarifications, but I’ll let you soak in that small essay first

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Could you link me to that study? Not in a “OH YEAH, PROVE IT” way but in a “this is interesting and i’d like to read it” way!

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Hey Anthony!

thank you so much… I love your points and quote on quote arguments :). Please let me know if you disagree on any of these. by no means am I an expert. However I spent a good amount of time to formulate a pre workout that will be EFFECTIVE and financially suitable for most gym goers.

Dynamine is 100 mg yielding 40mg

It costs a shit ton and being off heavy anecdotal evidence, I wanted to put some in to get that synergistic effect between Dynamine, higenamine, Eria Jarensis…giving you higher doses of things that will work as well as work well together.

The caffeine i kept at the dosage because anything higher than that puts risk of decreasing cerebral blood flow while exercising.
Theanine at the dosage is more so there because of the other ingredients like Eria Jarensis and dynamine. I didn’t want to put too much of one or the other in regards to theanine and caffeine.

I updated the google docs.

Alpha GPC costs a crap ton, not worth it IMO considering the other ingredients in the formula. CDP choline I like though. Was not aware of that unfortunately.

I put tyrosine in to work synergistic specifically with higenamine and eria jarensis giving that dopamine and adrenaline boost.
Tyrosine won’t really give you a boost alone.

Citrulline malate is at 2:1

I wanted to do 300mg of Vaso 6 but given the funds i’m working with as well as having other NO boosting ingredients, i felt that was a good dose. I’d rather have some rather than none. COQ10 is an ingredient that i believe no other pre workout has at 300mg. It is VERY underrated IMO. Not to mention it’s your brains main antioxidant and found in 95% of your cells. COQ10 always helps prevent excess free radicals.

" CoQ10 may also increase the production of prostacyclin PGI2, another vasodilator. It has also been proposed that CoQ10 may increase the sensitivity of arterial muscle to nitric oxide and/or prostacyclin PGI2."

Studies show that it also increases fast twitch muscle fibers when given at 300mg pre workout. It is so crucial pre workout, that is boggles my mind it is not seen. Protects your heart, increases fast twitch muscle fibers, dilates blood vessels, decreases oxidative stress and protects against muscle damage from heavy exercise. I mean thats just a few benefits to say the least. It also isn’t a cheap ingredient at that dose.

I was looking at both norvaline and agmatine,
I just didn’t find them worth putting in the formula. Correct me if i’m wrong, but to my knowledge norvaline doesn’t have much value if arginine isn’t taken. As far as Agmatine goes, I have citrulline, vaso6, COQ10, higenamine, glycerpump…I chose vaso6 over agmatine and norvaline. To me it was more valuable.

To be honest with you I would of liked to increased glycerpump to 1g but I had to choose between an EFFECTIVE and financially affordable product for the CONSUMER. Or an effective, stupidly priced pre workout. I plan on making an Eaa product with more glycerpump anyways so I decided to keep it at 500mg so that you notice the benefits but is it not overbearing.

I don’t see why people are putting 2-3g of glycerpump in one product. It’s a stupid way of marketing, where people think more is always better.
500 mg of caffeine omg!!! must be good!!! 3 gram glycer pump!!! I’m gonna be hydrated enough to last 7 days in the Sahara desert without water!

I’m a believer that some things that are heavily researched should be at the clinical dosage. Where as other ingredients should be at good dosages that work SYNERGISTIC with each other. Just because i put 500mg of caffeine and and 10g of citrulline in a pre workout doesn’t make it good. It just makes it look stupid more often than not. SMH. But that’s just my 2 cents.

The flavors are not set in stone, I unfortunately will only be able to afford one flavor to start off with. Based on feedback from people I will choose the flavor accordingly. I have over 20 people currently excited for blueberry lemonade though ;).

I hope I answers most if not all your questions, and please let me know if you want anything else for me to clarify!

Thank you so much and I appreciate the support!

-Robert

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I forgot to mention that studies on Vaso6 were used alone at 300mg.

That extra 150mg allows me to put more ingrediants in the formula :).

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Awesome response, thanks for clarifying everything! Glad to see you have reasoning for your dosages and the such, instead of just throwing a bunch of crap together and calling it preworkout. Couple closing things:

Excited to hear that! Fingers crossed for that flavor.

What’s going to be your views on artificial colors and flavors? As far as colors go, this forum is generally pretty against them.

Finally, what’s up with the calorie content on the label, or am I missing something? That’s quite a bit for a preworkout.

Looking forward to this, as well as your future products! Would love to sample when they come in!

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why not ubiquinol and shilajit? far superior to normal q10.
and vaso-6 is so overrated. agmatine does so many things in the body that are far more relevant than pump and abh/bec give more pump than vaso-6 anyway. even leucine nitrate does really. i have to say i think a lot od supps are extreely effective and vaso-6 i cannot feel a thing from.

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I have yet to have a single ingredient alone give me a better “pump” than Vaso-6, aside from astronically high amounts of citrulline which then leads to a violent detox (wink wink)

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Flavors are going to be natural and artifical with no artificial coloring. : )

And the label is just a stand in haha!
Not going to have over 50 calories, if that lol

Thank you so much for the support.

I’m so excited to release this.

I only get 3 tubs but I’ll see what I can do!

My Eaas is going to be bomb also…:wink:

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I mean, but what is effective/ineffective varies from person to person though

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Cool thread. Following along to see how this develops. I love Vaso-6 in RE1GN, but I do also love agmatine. I stacked some Performax Hypermax with an additional 1g of agmatine today (2g total) and the pump was unreal. Just throwing my 2c in.

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You make a very valid point! I appreciate your interest as well. :slight_smile:

I put COQ10 in because not only does it have thousands of more studies than ubiquinol but is also a lot more stable. COQ10 also directly correlates to the ATP process providing direct energy to the mitochondria. COQ10 also can convert between ubiquinone and ubiquinol once it is in the body.

I also added bioperine specifically to allow the COQ10 to be absorbed 30% better.

Not to mention Ubiquinol is extremely more expensive and harder to manufacture. Really only marketed towards people past the age of 40 also.

I decided to put bioperine instead of the shilajit because I was afraid it would cause the users to have diarrhea given the high dose of magnesium malate. Not to mention I honestly don’t know how it would react with everything else.

I put the magnesium malate in there instead because…

  1. Up to 80% of Americans are deficient
  2. Magnesium is in all processes utilized for ATP.
  3. May help boost testosterone levels because most people are deficient.
  4. Very little chance for common magnesium side effects.
    5 Boost muscle recovery as well as relaxation.

There are many other benefits but I just wanted to mention a few important ones.

I’m sorry you don’t notice much from Vaso6. Everyone is different so you are entitled to your opinion!
It is made out of green tea and grapeseed however, so it does have it’s health benefits as well!

If you have any questions at all please feel free to ask! :slight_smile: and thank you again for your feed back.

-Robert

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Awesome! Thank you so much for the support. :slight_smile:

I’ll have to maybe look into agmatine down the road given the feedback so far.

How long have you been using agmatine for/ what dosage do you find most effective?
and what else have you noticed with it?

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agmatine is not just a superior arginine. it is an nmda-receptor antagonist, reversing tolerance to psychotropic substances. it is a neurotransmitter that has antidepressant, anxiolytic and analgesic properties. it makes stimulants, even amphetamines more effective and reduces excitotoxicity, side effects. it prevents development of dependance on morphine when administered together in a study in mice.
it works as a nutrient partitioner and the pump is most likely more the result of that, therefore it is a more beneficial pump than an NO pump.

in terms of health many things are far superior to green tea/grape seed (and we do not know exactly how healthy vaso-6 is, just like urolithin-b possibly being not something to be taken long term but pomella pomegranate being one of the things that make sense being taken all the time)

i definitely would rather spend money on pterostilbene and pomegranate extract. they may not cause as much pump for some but they will cause a pump through increased ampk–> insulin sensitivity. nutrient partitioning is greatly increased, pterostilbene is possibly the most health promoting compound discovered so far. it not only protects healthy cells and works against many metabolic disorders, it also promotes brain health, neurochemically and can even prevent brain damage from stroke and promotes healing of structural damage. chromadex even made a pterostilbene-caffeine co-crystal (purenergy) which combined with arginocarn and an active b-complex and some eria jarensis would basically make the perfect energy supplement.
pterostilbene i would never go without. pomegranate (standardized to punicalagins) has its unique health benefits too, including delivering ellagic acid into the bloodstream and formation of urolithins in the gut.
in regards to ubiquinon vs. ubiquinol, shilajit and some other questions it seems like what i have often ovserved. you seem to have the intention o making a great product and using quality ingredients, yet do not really know everything or in some cases most stuff about certain ingredients and interactions. i see this with basically every supplement. either the dosage combinations are off so in order to get an ideal dose of one ingredient another may be too high or the combinations do not really make sense or there are no actual benefits in terms of metabolic changes but only acute effects as with most pump supplements.

many supplements that are not made by bodybuilding companies are actually more effective to performance and body composition.
take life extension ampk activator. people know berberine is as effective as metformin basically. gynostemma (activamp at 450mg) is far more potent. there is a lot of compounds that outperform pharmaceuticals. there is no natural anabolic as potent as tren but there is no medication that can come close to what can be done through nutrient partitioning.
of course some compounds are expensive but also worth it, especially as i know in the US and when you buy as a company in bulk things aren’t that costly. most supps are 10% raw material cost of the retail price max.

check out something like this:

1500mg acetyl-l-carnitine-arginate dihydrochloride
200mg n-methyl-beta-methyl-phenylethylamine or 150mg eria jarensis
400mg purenergy (228mgpteropure-172mgcaffeine co-crystal

2000mg creatinol-o-phosphate
1200mg selaginella (20% amentoflavone)

6g creatine-pyruvate
3g lc-fumarate
3g calcium-orotate
200mg ubiquinol
200mg shilajit

2g leucin-nitrate
1g pomegranate extract (30% punicalagins)
1g acerola powder (25% vit.c)

20 servings of that may cost 20-30 dollars to make. not investing tons into marketing it could be offered for 80-100 dollars. consider that stacking 2-3 supplements priced 30-50 dollars will not come close to that and buying solo would cost an absurd amount of money. this is NOT a perfect comprehensive formula. there is many small additions which would up the price a lot and improve the effectiveness further but see how the dosages, compounds and effect of compounds all make sense and are not a random combination of things.

agmatine is not included here as i see its benefits even more as a daily product in a nutrient partitioner and agmatine these days is usually not comparable to agmapure which is really a lot more effective than any agmatine, no matter how reputable the company.

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Glad you are steering clear of artificial colors and flavors.

I am curious to see how it tastes and how the Vaso6 gets masked!

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