New supplement thread

Supplements
9886

I don’t want to turn this into a full blown debate, but I read it differently. He said:

Guys like Kris Gethin and John Meadows found the performance sweet spot range at 150mg - 275mg. I very much found myself agreeing with them after trying their product and knowing that they personally went through the trial and error.

The fact that he first said they found the sweet spot THEN said that he agrees with them after trying their product suggests to me that they are claiming to have found the sweet spot. He may be saying he only thinks it’s the sweet spot for him, not in general, but it sure sounds to me like he’s at least saying Kris and John think they’ve found the performance sweet spot in general. (edit: but they’re selling supplements, so I guess it’s only natural they’d claim theirs are the best and dosed the best)

9887

It makes for a fascinating debate…when it comes to a ‘pre-workout’ the reality is (I learned this from you guy’s) it’s not always entirely about the caffeine as much as it is about the ‘formula’. There are days that Ghost at 200 MG of caffeine will hit me harder than a pre with much more caffeine.Where I start to feel it is later in the day or the next day if I’ve had my morning coffee and then had a pre over 350MG of caffeine (roughly - this is not scientific) - later that day or the next day I’ll feel like I was run over by a truck.

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9888

Adrenal fatigue is a real thing.

My opinion is, you will be much more likely to hear your body telling you it needs rest, if you aren’t overly stimmed out. When you keep your stims high, you can power through - but may not realize you wrecked your CNS.

Everyone responds differently, but I can tell much easier when my body truly needs a break, when my sitms are lower.

9889

Great point.

9890

I’m fairly sure that the consensus in the academic and medical fields/communities is that adrenal FATIGUE is not a real thing.

This systematic review proves that there is no substantiation that “adrenal fatigue” is an actual medical condition. Therefore, adrenal fatigue is still a myth.

Current evidence does not support the existence of adrenal fatigue…

A recent review of 58 studies concluded that there is no scientific basis to associate adrenal impairment as a cause of fatigue. The authors report the studies had some limitations. The research included used many different biological markers and questionnaires to detect adrenal fatigue. For example, salivary cortisol is one of the most common ordered tests used to make a diagnosis. The cortisol level, when checked four times in a 24-hour period, was no different between fatigued and healthy patients in 61.5% of the studies. The review raises questions around what should get tested (blood, urine, and/or saliva), the best time, how often, what ranges are considered normal, and how reliable the tests are, to name a few. In summary, there is no formal criteria to define and diagnose adrenal fatigue.

Adrenal INSUFFICIENCY is, but that’s not the same thing, and isn’t caused by the same thing people believe adrenal fatigue is.

While the diagnosis of adrenal fatigue is not accepted by most doctors, adrenal insufficiency is a real medical condition that occurs when our adrenal glands cannot produce enough hormones. Adrenal insufficiency is caused by damage to the adrenal glands or a problem with the pituitary gland—a pea-sized gland in the brain that tells the adrenals to produce cortisol.
A person with adrenal insufficiency may be dehydrated, confused, or losing weight. He or she may feel weak, tired, or dizzy, and have low blood pressure. Other symptoms include stomach pain, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea.
Adrenal insufficiency is diagnosed through blood tests, and can be treated with medications that replace the hormones the adrenals would normally make.

Now, BURNOUT or OVERREACHING/OVERTRAINING is undoubtedly a thing, but that in no way means that adrenal fatigue is the driver behind these things.

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9891

To be fair, there’s also a difference between purely “optimal” for increasing power output and providing just the right amount of energy for you to push through a good workout, and also still enjoy it. And other ingredients that may not acutely increase power output can still increase endurance, or improve focus, or give you a better pump, all of which can lead to you having a better workout, especially towards the later parts of the workout when you’d normally be tired or your motivation could drop.

I still maintain that if your primary focus is to lift as much weight as possible in a given workout, 3-5mg/kg caffeine is the way to go, assuming you can tolerate it well enough. 100-200mg theanine with 300+ mg caffeine can help for some people too. But I’m not a fan of >200mg theanine in a PWO, or >100mg if there’s not at least 300mg caffeine.

But different strokes for different folks. YMMV.

9892

Really good point. And let’s face it some days you need more of a push than others, and there are some days where you reach for Product A and other days where you reach for Product B. There are plenty of supplements that will provide the ‘correct nutrients’ that you need for your training session, but if you don’t ‘feel it’…well the training session may indeed suffer.

MP…you had mentioned Theanine. I have used and do like Legion Pulse. LP contains 350mg of Caffeine AND 350mg of Theanine. Now, if you are training in the morning and then working - it’s great to get Sh** done (Azoth reference). But Dear God…by late in the day I find myself saying…ok, can I get off this ride now? Random thoughts.

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9893

Side note: Want to feel old? Jym supplements on BB.com are 20% off - why? 7th anniversary. Holy hell it’s been around for 7 years? Insanity…where does the time go?

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9894

Wow. How time flies.

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9895

I’m a lawyer, not a doctor. I’ll admit if I mislabeled it.

9896

No worries, just pointing it out because it’s such a common myth, both in the fitness and general health population/groups. But yeah, definitely listen to your body.

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9897

Marc stated a new outright bar is dropping every 2 weeks for the next 3 months (6 in total)
Pumpkin
Gingerbread
Red Velvet
White Chocolate Mocha

  • 2 others

Hot damn…

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9898

I’m glad you brought that up, because I’ve always heard the opposite. By that I mean, many “gurus” (not MDs) claim “over reaching” or “over training” is impossible unless you’re training like an Olympic athlete.

Whatever it is, I can tell when I feel like crud and the idea of lifting a weight sounds gut wrenching. What’s worse, is when you try to push through those days, show up at the gym, and everything feels excruciatingly heavy.

It would make me feel better knowing it’s due to my hard work, and not my adrenal system failing. Haha.

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9899

Iced Venti White Mocha is my go to at Starbucks so that White Mocha should be interesting

9900

I mean, I don’t see how people can say overtraining isn’t a thing. It may not be common, and most of it may be more the result of poor diet, poor sleep, life stress, etc. more than just going too hard in the gym, but of course there’s some limit where, even with all other variables in check, you end up doing too much. I mean, imagine you decide to do 20 sets to failure for each muscle, and hit each muscle 3x a week. Try doing this for months and see what happens haha. Unless you’re juiced fo the gills, and maybe even then, I think you’ll burn out. Now, the more the other variables aren’t in perfect check, the less you can do before you end up at that point, IMO. But life is full of complications, times when we don’t get close to 8 hours of sleep a night, or don’t eat as much as we should, or have a lot of stress weighing us down.

In a perfect world, where you always get 8+ hours of sleep, hit all your macro goals, and don’t have any major life stress, then yeah, you’d really have to try to overtrain, but, in messy reality, I think it’s a bit easier to to by accident.

And mental state plays a huge role too IMO. Some days a given weight feels super heavy, and others it feels light, even only one or two workouts apart, in the span of less than a week even. I wouldn’t call that overtraining necessarily, but a period of stress in your life could lead to a string of workouts where your mind isn’t in the right place, and your workouts really suffer. Just being burnt out in general, physically or mentally, can lead to lackluster workouts, even if it’s not technically overtraining.

But I’m no MD either haha.

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9901

It may not be rooted in science nor in the medical community as a diagnosed ‘condition’ but we have all experienced it - whatever it is…and its not fun.

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9902

Pumpkin
Pumpkin1001×487 364 KB

Pumpkin Pie Outright Bars now at VS
4 weeks for TF

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9903

Swedish fish Ghost Gamer coming soon

image
image1125×1185 285 KB

There are a few more yet to come for this product for flavors

9904

IMO, most people do not per se “over-train,” unless, like you said, they’re OIympic-tier training.

Most people “under-recover.” It’s not the amount of work that you’re putting in that’s fucking up your brain and body, it’s that you aren’t taking the time to bounce back (probably).

I can tell you that I’ve done Building The Monolith with my true 1RMs, which has things such as 10x5 bench @ 90%, and 1x20 squat @ 70%. I was eating about 6000 calories per day, probably 300-400g of protein daily, sleeping 9-10 hours per day, and totally natty, nothing that could even be questionable. I hurt all the time but I hit my numbers and never felt run-down, I actually felt great besides the soreness.

Earlier this year I was also doing some ridiculous training for an oly WL competition, and had 3+ hour long training sessions 4x/week. I wasn’t sleeping or eating nearly as much as above, but I was still taking my recovery seriously, and was getting by. I would say that both of these examples would set off huge “overtraining” red flags to most intermediate lifters, but in neither case did I suffer from the typical “overtraining” symptoms, because I was making sure my body was recovering well.

Don’t train less, recover more.
(I know you’re a lawyer and a new father, that’s probably not really on the table for you, but it’s a general statement, y’know)

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9905

My natural set point is probably 12% body fat.

I stay close to 8-10% year round, which I believe is a reason for getting run down easily. Anyone who has prepped understands you just feel a little bit worse with every bit of fat you lose.

I think there are plenty of variables. Irony is, my job and home life aren’t stressful (kiddo is already a year and half old!). I train with a lot of volume, which is a different topic for a different time. A bunch of factors.

Point is, I agree with you on “overtraining.” Guys like Ben P, Layne Norton, and many others agree that overtraining isn’t likely with athletes like us. I certainly don’t eat quality meals 4xs a day like I used to. Honestly, I take a shake post workout, have a lunch, have a dinner, and a shake before bed. I wouldn’t doubt that the lack of more quality nutrients and the timing of those nutrients Play a major role in my recovery.

Call it fatigue, call it over training, call it under recovering, but when I feel like crap and don’t want to even touch a weight (which is rare), I know my body is telling me it needs a break… no matter the reason.

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