Interesting, maybe VasoDrive and Vaso6 being inhibitory of each other? Perhaps why it’s the only product combining the two. Guess I’ll see soon during arm day. Stacking with old formula kraken since I need my stims for the day
Also not a fan of lacking any arginase inhibitors. Agmatine and/or norvaline are a must at this point for me
Norvaline is not what you want in a pwo. Companies need to stop using it
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Really? What’s the issue with it?
Norvaline is a derivative of Valine and acts as an enzyme inhibitor that prevents Arginine from being degraded in the body. if Arginine is present, it will ultimately equate to more nitric oxide. In case you need us to remind you why we want that, it is because it means more pumps!
Norvaline and Citrulline have a synergistic effect that we love to talk about with supplements. One is going to boost your arginine levels and the other will keep your body from breaking that arginine down.
Right from PP on their blog . It helps with plasma levels and can be synergistic with other ingredients such as Citrulline to aid pump
I personally never had an issue with it and have enjoyed every product that has it
But to each their own we all respond differently to products
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It has to be co-ingested at the same time with arginine and is so damn dose dependent it’s not worth it.
From coop himself: “Low doses won’t do anything, high doses may be detrimental to health, and medium doses co-ingested with arginine may increase arginine’s bioavailability”.
I’ll pass
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What is considered high and do you have the research to show the adverse effects to our health associated with it? I’ve persoanlly never had a bad or negative side effect using upwards to 300mg.
But again I enjoy it so I’ll continue to use it
While you may get nothing out of
If we are all made different and react different to each ingredient
The same can be said with other ingredients
CLA - people swear its effective for weight loss even with research not in its favor
Laxo - people swear its awesome for gains and recovery and I persoanlly got nothing from it
We could go back and forth but the body is not a textbook what one person writes off may strike gold for another
It’s not my research although I studied what was available. I’ll refer you to MrCoopers research which I trust more than 99% of any formulators.
Couple of important points he makes and I agree is that we all eat high protein diets typically and you need proper arginase function.
I love cooper and his advice and I have met him in real life. But that’s 2013 with how fast science changes and evolves has there been anything published in the last 5 years?
As you know supplements , dieting, nutrition change in the blink of an eye. This could be outdated If no new has been studied or researched.
If these ingredients aren’t worth a dime why do we contribute to see them pop up into major brands and products? If there was so much harm associated towards using them you think a company would know its limitations before creating and scripting a formula . Exactly why PP did their write up and why Dan chose to add Citrulline and other nitric oxide and pump products to enhance the norvaline
I would be interested to see if you tried ghost pump
And how you would rate it before writing it off due to one ingredient
There isn’t any new data around norvaline that I can see. From what I have read, 200mg is considered a max safe dose. This is why most formulas that have it use 100-200mg from what I have seen.
Btw Bob, I am not knocking Ghost Pump and the supplement has nothing to do with my thoughts around norvaline. It’s 20 servings and any concerns will be more in line with chronic use.
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Science is a tool
In the end personal experience will always reign supreme
We see plenty of people who go against the odds of science with supplementation and dietary suggestions, but what’s funny is sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. Just like how we all respond differently to products. What I am saying is don’t write off an ingredient or product because you read something from 2 posts on an online forum. I love cooper and I admire research as it helps pave the way for what’s worth our money and not.
Put it to practice and experiment with it and you may just change your mind. A lot of people write off Countless products due to science, but some respond well and continue to utilize rhem and benefit even without a study in their favor.
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I have used norvaline in many pre workout products but never bulk and I wouldn’t now use in bulk. Whether or not I can say I noticed a difference is hard considering how many other vasodilator ingredients are used.
I don’t make assessments based on any forum posts, I will do my own research which I’m pretty good at. However, the person posting will influence my thoughts and/or trust on their own research as to whether or not it has accuracy in understanding the actual research. Coop, falls on my positive list so I take his posts more of an actual proper assessment.
I take science>anecdotal experience with any compounds because placebo is real. Kind of like the compounds you mention Bob, so much placebo when it fact, science debunked.
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Fun stack today, intracell 7, DMHA Kraken, and 500mg vaso-6
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Love me some Intracell.
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You should have one hell of a pump
It was nasty. Today was a scoop of Chaotic Labz’s Brave and a scoop of Equalizer. Both stim heavy, massive prop blends. Kinda scary
science has proven that only a weight above the level of conditioning is effective and then rep 1 is the same as rep 10. any exercise with less tension, intensity techniques, this, that cannot cause microtraumata. muscles adapt to a load after about 3 sessions so then one is uselessly moving around weight.
if i was wrong then how come i gained 9cm on arms in 5 weeks and probably 45 pounds (memory effect yes but after 3 years off one does not get to 44cm arms from 35 in 5 weeks. had i taken the weight increases more slowly instead of going from 30% to 80% or so of my old training weights that would not have happened).
this has been proven and also that muscles under constant tension grow during training so recovery is a myth regarding muscles. 24/7 mechanical tension would yield extreme gains and without muscle failure burning out the cns is pretty much impossible. try hanging on a chinup bar with 200lbs added or so, then do tiny movements coming from your lats, only and inch or so. be prepared for the soreness of your life. also training while having lots of microtraumata potentiates everything and no ARA or antioxidants have any relevance compared to the degree that training can achieve. causing 100x as much microtraumata per session and doing that 3-12x week results in things like 15lbs of muscle in 2-3 months. not lean muss, muscle. the thing is that it seems most cannot use nearly all of their fibres as i see 7 reps of cardio and then suddenly one is struggling. when i do 8 reps the first rep looks like a 1rm nearly and each rep exactly the same.
bodybuilding training has no scientific basis whatsoever as doing a lighter eercise with less stretch after the first one (in which ever rep should be done with the same weight) cannot cause microtraumata. it is absolutely impossible. imagine a wall that has become resistent to a missile and you are now shooting with a handgun.
maybe it is why bb look like their muscles are less protein and more water than those of strength athletes. they are round and soft looking. i have posted this before and i know it gets people angry but this is the science and bb are weak, jay cutler should be much stronger than me shoudn’t he? yet he struggles on back exercises with my warmup weights. if i can barbell row twice my bodyweight lying on a bench for easy reps then he should be able to do that with 600lbs or so. yet he can barely do 400 standing and it is not even a row. 310 and it is already heavy for him (now i know many who can do that easily with the kind of technique who weigh 180lbs).lying on a bench pulling off the ground is significantly harder than those belt jumping 45 degree uper body 2 inch rows the pros do. so coleman is good at benching but his barbell row he could not row off the ground nor even make it move. he simply jumps around. sorry but i think it is pathetic especially since steroids allegedly are so effective and those guys use 15g/week, believe it or not. gram of test daily and 48 i.u. hgh was the first thing a pro needed immediately as his base before adding all the rest and the locally injected pgf-alpha or what that shit is called. they inject prostaglandins for edema…
sorry for offtopic but i think pro bb are laughable.powerlifters probably agree. you guys realize that the pros cannot do the workouts they claim? the videos are shot in many days. a heavy set of squats and they may vomit, collapse, need half an hour on the ground and so on. many have yellow eyes before comp. those burps from markus ruhl is his liver failing…i wonder how they eat…
Kind of a hypocritical comment don’t you think? Saying he twists things as he likes? You may want to look at yourself as well, you’re one sided by a mile and you were a formulator. Smh here
He hasn’t worked for Pes in some years now and I have mostly seen formulators “twist” things to make them IN their favor, not out considering adding that compound wouldn’t be at much cost to Pes.
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i do not work for brawn, neither do i take money from them anymore as they are useless and did things with products without asking me. so i am rejecting money and will never make a product for them again as i want nothing to do with it when they assume they can change one ingredient and ruin everything.
sorry to disappoint you, i have no egocentric intentions nor do i do things for any personal gain as those are foreign to me. i have publicly posted info others would keep secret and spent hours writing people giving real coaching for free so sorry but it just does not work, you will not find any ugly human character traits unless you project them. don’t assume i function like others. i do not have desires or am victim to emotions. i don’t even help someone to do something good but just because i can. i realize it is strange but superiority/inferiority, subjectivity, opinions are all things of a world that i observe but am not caught up in. words like I or me are words that need to be used in language, the concept of being an individual separate from some outside world is something for the mind and i do not think in language or understand things intellectually, i only use that as it cant be explained otherwise. for example i know i will never get cancer and i always know when something strange is about to happen. i cant explain how, i just know.
would you believe that over 10 years ago i saw tinospora cordifolia in an indian herbal shop and knew it would be of relevance soon. i had no idea about the stuff then. what followed is not only natadrol but tinofend (an immunmodulator, something extremely unique).
so what if i just have some ability? who cares? i have diagnosed people correctly who were misdiagnosed by specialists by asking one question. it is not intellectual genius or anything like that, it just happens. when people think they are having a heart attack or something i will know they aren’t or that the mole is not skin cancer. i feel it and it always turns out to be right.
if i wanted to make money i would manipulate people and tell them something that triggers a desired response. it’s easy but not my nature.
do you prefer a doctor who makes you feel worse by prescribing the wrong thing or someone who tells you to take the other med and get better? be a statistic or have someone understand whats going on? (some honest information will allow me to figure out psychiatric misdiagnosis. so many doctors would have diagnosed a psychiatric problem in my case when i have never experienced anything resembling low mood. if i can’t get up i can’t, no psychoblaaa. i have diagnosed, treated and cured myself, my dr. is there to give me the script. now i can tell wether people need to talk or see an endocrinologist, even if they insist they are not depressed or are. everyone seems to need to identify with some kind of state they are in and low serotonin, endorphins and dopamine do not have to cause any sadness whatsoever, however i have experienced pain that 30 OC80 at once did not reduce without injury. now this sounds all impossible but it is as it is. i have experienced many impossible things so i will believe someone when some doctor will claim that it cannot be or is a lie. i can inject 1 gram pure diamorphine and not get tired or high and that is about enough for full pain relief. as this will kill anyone and much less will make people with terminal cancer experience full relief i have experienced the unimagineable, should be dead instead of lifting weights and always found the solution myself. i can do the same for people who trust me. and believe it or not, often i will tell them to go to a doctor.
one more thing. do not attribute things to me like “being one-sided”. it is pure projection. i have no desire or need to be right or any intention other than showing people how they are being lied to, manipulated, categorized and it can be different if one stops assuming that i am the same way as other people as i am not.subjective sensory perception is not something i experience… dualism is your world and sides are not part of mine. people assume i feel the need to respond to things when i am really doing it because not doing it would be what an egocentric person would do. deciding not to help someone because they do not like them or whatever. see, if i can do something for you that is important i will, if you are all happy and healthy then good. but i won’t give or refuse help or advice depending on wether one is being nice to me, ignorant or the buddha.
Well shit, guess I’m canceling my med school plans